old moodler
Recording playback question/issue(s)
by Andrew Hawkins - Friday, 24 May 2013, 5:06 AM
 

Following some good online help (as always and this time with Julian himself - how does he manage to find time for all this? - I want whatever he is on) - if anyone has more up to date/accurate info - please correct me.

  • recordings will be available, but after several hours, depending on length, audience size etc - 4 hours plus in some cases.
  • recordings do not contain desktop sharing - only sound and slides (and maybe chat/questions?)

I and others elsewhere have experienced some problems replaying the video stream and/or syncing the slides to the sound on a recording. The relevant files have been checked by support as OK suggesting problems at receiving end (or in between).

Maybe someone from BBB (Fred?) can help with this please - is there a spec for receiving connections? minimum connection speed, CPU, RAM, preferred OS? I have tried with Chrome and Firefox (latter as recommended)- both exhibit similar symptoms.

Live sessions are fine (for me OK - others with playback issues, please comment) as is other video streaming. Is there some tuning I need to do for BBB streaming? How is it different to other streams?

On the current basis I would strongly echo the request to be able to download the recordings because as things stand very many of the (excellent) sessions will be missed completely due to a combination of this access problem, other commitments and time difference etc.

[for reference - I am using WinXP, Chrome (and Firefox), P4 3GHz, 1Gb RAM, ADSL broadband 28Mbs download]

TIA

Andy H

PS tomorrow/later I'll try a Linux desktop box to see if that is any better

 

Picture of Maggy Tomkins
Re: Recording playback question/issue(s)
by Maggy Tomkins - Friday, 24 May 2013, 8:08 AM
 

I have not been able to playback any sessions. No problem with live sessions but playback takes me to either: the BBB intro screen asking me to view intro videos (with no way out that I can see); a grey screen with the slides down the left side; or the actual slides displayed full screen - but never an audio. I can see at the bottom that something is playing and the volume is on full, but I can't hear it. I am in a rural area with slow speeds, so not sure if it is just me.

Picture of Sheryl Williams
Re: Recording playback question/issue(s)
by Sheryl Williams - Friday, 24 May 2013, 8:44 AM
 

I also have not been able to hear/see any of the recorded sessions and I don't know what I am doing wrong.  I see the BBB intro screen asking to view a video (with no live link) and if I scroll through the video I will hear a bit of clicking and see the discussion in the right hand panel.

I'm really relying on the playback as the time zone makes it hard to participate.

I opened it again and can hear the audio but not see the screen.

Attached is a screen shot


Picture of Claire Machia
Re: Recording playback question/issue(s)
by Claire Machia - Friday, 24 May 2013, 12:26 PM
 

Hi Sheryl,

I too am relying on the playback to get the most out of this conference despite time zone differences. I have had some luck viewing them, although was really confused by the 10-20 minutes of an early start in the video. Then I thought that the fact I wasn't seeing the screen sharing was a technical issue. I am disappointed to learn the BBB doesn't support it. What good is a session on Moodle 2.5 when I can't see it in action while they are discussing it?!

 

 

Picture of leo gregorc
Re: Recording playback question/issue(s)
by leo gregorc - Friday, 24 May 2013, 9:16 AM
 

Maggy, I am in a rural setting as well and satellite downloads are  very bad. Here is here is what i have discovered...

  • the session recordings usually start between 10- 20 mins or so before the actual event begins, so you will need to wait a bit before the actual session starts.  I have had to leave it a bit for the info to download and then review it in chunks.
  • if the presenter has used video, then this will take even longer.  

so just be patient, it will eventually play.  for the sessions that i missed last night, it is rewarding

leo

Andrew Chambers
Re: Recording playback question/issue(s)
by Andrew Chambers - Friday, 24 May 2013, 10:12 AM
 

Yep. Mine has the slides but no audio sad Others are completely blank. I did find one that was working.  The other thread has said it may take a couple of days or even longer for the recordings to show up (especially if they have destop sharing)

I will present again tomorrow. Hope things are fixed eventually. smile

BTW when presenting don't show your webcam and then swap to ScreenShare without turning off your web cam. This crashed and overloaded my old MacBook Pro. I managed to continue using audio from the MB Pro and video from my Win 7 box... smile Despite the fact tthe MBP video chip had hung!

Picture of Fred Dixon
Re: Recording playback question/issue(s)
by Fred Dixon - Friday, 24 May 2013, 10:23 AM
 

Hi Andrew,

> Seriously no desktop sharing?

There is no playback of desktop sharing.  This feature is not in currently in BigBlueButton.

Putting on my Blindside Networks hat, we're investing the effort to convert all the iMoot recordings to videos with desktop sharing.  This will take us a some time and manual effort, but we want to make sure you have the full recording.  We'll get the videos to Pukunui and make sure they are satisfied with it.

 

Putting on my BigBlueButton hat, there are many things we'd like to do with BigBlueButton related to recording (like add a stop/start button), but we can't do everything in a single release.  Like Moodle, we prioritize, we finished, we test and test, and then release.  

Lots more releases ahead for BigBlueButton, and we'll continue improving it for the Moodle community.

Regards,... Fred

Andrew Chambers
Re: Recording playback question/issue(s)
by Andrew Chambers - Tuesday, 28 May 2013, 1:57 PM
 

Thanks Fred, I reckon BBB is actually pretty good. OK so its only 80% of other products, but in the end I figured it all out and stopped my crashing and other more minor niggles. Keep on upgrading it. I have 2 sessions and I might delete one to save you the hassle of converting both... The second one definately went better than the first... (And I got a cat in it and earned a badge! LOL. But I forgot to wear my Dr Who T-Shirt! Drat!

Picture of Fred Dixon
Re: Recording playback question/issue(s)
by Fred Dixon - Friday, 24 May 2013, 10:27 AM
 

Hi Andrew,

We recommend you use either Chrome or FireFox for playback of recordings.  We use only open source codecs in the recordings (i.e. VP8), and the Safari and IE do not support these codecs.

 

Also, there is no synchronization between the audio and video during broadcast.  This is because BigBlueButton supports dial-in numbers for the voice conference (so users on a phone can join in).  The audio from the clients go through one path, while the video goes through another.

We try to make the broadcast and capture of both paths as efficient as possible, but there is no synchronization between them.  

 

Regards,... Fred

 

old moodler
Re: Recording playback question/issue(s)
by Andrew Hawkins - Friday, 24 May 2013, 4:33 PM
 

Thanks to Fred for the responses.I am unclear about the relationship between Moodle, Pukunui, Blindside networks and BBB.

May I suggest a brief technical background on how iMoot works is posted somewhere [next year]. (apologies if I have missed this somewhere)

I am guessing BBB handles the video conferencing and Blindside the connections? or is Blindside the commercial parent of open source BBB?

It is also still unclear exactly what we should expect by comparison with last year. [I know last year's was Adobe which worked in a different way and they too had their problems the previous year.]

Do you have a small/short example that is more likely to work that we could use for testing? [again - a test stream for watching recordings would be good next year as well as the test 'lounge' for the live sessions]

Or maybe a youtube video of what we should expect. (I know that Youtube streaming works on my PC)

From your description (and that of others) it seems that it is a case of go to the link and wait and see if some audio starts after 15mins or so which is not linked to the slides.

We cannot do that for each session we need to catch up on on trial/error basis. (I have tried another and some audio chat and video began after 30mins)

If the slides are not synced to the audio then why do they keep jumping about when I try and click on different ones (with stream paused or playing)?  [session a-08.]

Obviously we appreciate all the efforts of BBB and Blindside in trying to get things to work, especially on a global 24/7 conference - especially if we are using open source systems here. [maybe we were spoilt by Adobe last time]

I guess we just need to know more clearly:

  • what we should be expecting to see/hear during a recording (and how soon it starts after the screen is shown)
  • how to manage the recording if it is not synced - do the presenters need to actually say 'now on to slide 3' so we know when to move on, in case is is unclear. [do you remember the old days of transparency slide shows and audio recordings with a 'beep' to tell you to go to next slide?]
  • if/when the improved versions might be available with desktop sharing (and more reliable performance?) - am I right in thinking there are effectively the immediate 'recordings' (possibly a bit rough at edges eg delayed starts) and then also improved 'video' versions (with desktop sharing)  being sent to Pukunui that will be made available at a future date? If not please clarify. [where the tech background might help]

Sorry if this seems a bit negative - it is not my intention. This is my third iMoot and the live sessions I have caught have been as good as before and I appreciate all the efforts of presenters, organisers and backstage techs in getting this thing together.

TIA

Andy H

Picture of Fred Dixon
Re: Recording playback question/issue(s)
by Fred Dixon - Friday, 24 May 2013, 9:47 PM
 

Hi Andrew,

 

Lots of good questions.  Answers are in-line.

 

> I am unclear about the relationship between Moodle, Pukunui, Blindside networks and BBB.

Moodle and BigBlueButton are open source projects.

Pukuni provides commercial support for Moodle; Blindside Networks provides commercial support for BigBlueButton.  

We prefer to wear our open source hats (not commercial hats) in these forums.  

For more information on the BigBlueButton project (and it's relationship to Blindside Networks), see http://www.bigbluebutton.org/history/.

 

> It is also still unclear exactly what we should expect by comparison with last year.

We don't have any side-by-side comparison of BigBlueButton with other commercial projects.  

BigBlueButton implements the core capabilities of real-time sharing of audio, video, slides, chat, and desktops.  We recognize we could have done a better job of settings people's expectations for the playback.

BigBlueButton provides playback of audio + slides + presentation + webcam.  It's missing playback of desktop sharing.  However, as stated earlier, there are efforts underway to ensure the iMoot folks have a full recording of each session as a video file (with desktop sharing).

 

> Do you have a small/short example that is more likely to work that we could use for testing?

For an overview of what you can expect, see  .  This video contains some technical information on BigBlueButton, specifically the current version we're using for iMoot, but it also gives an overview of the playback capabilities.

 

> From your description (and that of others) it seems that it is a case of go to the link and wait and see if some audio starts after 15mins or so which is not linked to the slides.

 

Your right!  The recording begins automatically when the first person enters, and stops when the last person leaves.  

But, that's not so good, as we've encouraged presenters to arrive (at least) 15 minutes before the session starts to make sure everything is working.

This means as a viewer you will need to advance ahead a bit to find the start of the session.

 

> We cannot do that for each session we need to catch up on on trial/error basis. (I have tried another and some audio chat and video began after 30mins)

 

Sorry about that.  There's no editing ability in BigBlueButton, nor is there a start/stop button, so the recording begins right away.  

In the playback, there is a thumbnail overview of slides, so if the presenter is sharing slides, you can quickly advance to the second slide, which should take you very close to the start of the session.

Putting on my Blindside Networks hat, we'll be manually trimming all the video versions of the recordings (after we create them), so one they are available you'll be able to start playing and see the start of the session.

 

> If the slides are not synced to the audio then why do they keep jumping about when I try and click on different ones (with stream paused or playing)?  [session a-08.]

All the events in the recording playback on the timeline -- which is the audio (or audio/video track), but they are not perfectly in sync.  You will probably not notice it unless the presenter says something like "I'm going to slide X right .... now".  Slide X may not appear that instant, but it will be close.

What you will notice is the the audio and video itself will be out of sync with each other (likely by at least two seconds).  So if you try to lip sync the presenter to their audio, you'll see a difference.

 

> what we should be expecting to see/hear during a recording (and how soon it starts after the screen is shown)

You'll have audio + webcams (all of them) + presentation (slides, whiteboard, mouse movement, pan and zoom) + chat.

You won't have desktop sharing until the videos are created.

 

> how to manage the recording if it is not synced - do the presenters need to actually say 'now on to slide 3' so we know when to move on, in case is is unclear.

The presentation and chat are synced (these are non-media events, so easier to sync).  You should be able to scrub through (use the circle on the playback bar, like YouTube) to scrub the entire presentation, or use the slides thumbnails to jump to specific areas.

Perhaps the best way to describe is to see a recording is to see it.  We invite everyone to view the recording from Session A-8, See

   http://2013.imoot.org/mod/recordingsbn/view.php?id=3068

I've attached a screen shot of the playback to this post.

 

> if/when the improved versions might be available with desktop sharing 

We're going to get everyone the video version of the sessions as soon as possible, but there is a bit of work ahead.  We don't have a date for their availability, but you should expect it will take (at least) a few weeks.

 

Thanks for all your questions!

Regards,... Fred

 

 

 

 


old moodler
r
by Andrew Hawkins - Saturday, 25 May 2013, 5:07 AM
 
Hello Fred Thanks for detailed reply. Very helpful. Sorry for brief response for now as typing this on phone. Andy H
Andrew Chambers
Re: Recording playback question/issue(s)
by Andrew Chambers - Tuesday, 28 May 2013, 2:02 PM
 

Will we be able to share this video of our presentations to others outside of iMoot? I have been asked by a colleague about the presentation but am unsure on the IP rights and access post the conference...

Andrew Chambers
Re: Recording playback question/issue(s)
by Andrew Chambers - Tuesday, 28 May 2013, 5:07 PM
 

I listened to the last session and now understand its 12 months before they are made available... So are imoot2012 recordings now available?